U.S. Generals: Iraq Civil War Being Fought For Baghdad

[trancepriest]

BAGHDAD, IRAQ — Bombings and shootings soared by 40 percent in the Baghdad area in the past week, the U.S. military said Thursday. An American general said extremists were preparing "an all-out assault" on the capital in a decisive battle for the future of Iraq.

Iraq's most influential Shiite cleric issued his strongest call yet for an end to Shiite-Sunni bloodletting, urging all Iraqis to wake up to the "danger threatening the future of the country" and stand "side-by-side against it."

U.S. military spokesman Maj. Gen. William Caldwell said there had been an average of 34 attacks a day involving U.S. and Iraqi forces in and around the capital since Friday — up sharply from the daily average of 24 registered between June 14 and July 13.

"We have not witnessed the reduction in violence one would have hoped for in a perfect world," Caldwell told reporters. "The only way we're going to be successful in Baghdad is to get the weapons off the streets."

Caldwell said insurgents were streaming into the capital for "an all-out assault against the Baghdad area."

"Clearly the death squad elements, the terrorist elements, know that Baghdad is a must-win for them," he said. "Whoever wins the Baghdad area, whoever is able to bring peace and security to that area, is going to set the conditions to stabilize this country."

But much of the bloodshed has been carried out by Shiite militias seeking retribution for attacks by Sunnis — including organized insurgents, religious extremists and Sunnis not affiliated with resistance groups but fearful of Shiite gunmen.

The result is a pattern of tit-for-tat vendetta killings which is difficult to stop by military action or political overtures to Sunni insurgent leaders.

With thousands fleeing areas where their sect is in the minority, Iraqis fear Baghdad is being transformed into a Sunni west and a Shiite and Christian east — divided by the Tigris River that flows through the center of the city.

Alarmed by the crisis, Grand Ayatollah Ali Al-Sistani issued a rare statement, saying the time has come for "all those who value the unity and future of this country" to "exert maximum efforts to stop the bloodletting."

Al-Sistani, a longtime voice of moderation, urged Iraqis against "falling into the trap of sectarian and ethnic strife," which he said will only delay the departure of foreign troops.

"I repeat my call today to all Iraqis of different sects and ethnic groups to be aware of the danger threatening the future of the country and stand side-by-side against it," he said.

Caldwell's comments were among the most frank by a senior American military official about the grave crisis facing Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's two-month-old national unity government.

U.S. officials have long pointed to relative peace in many of Iraq's 18 provinces, dismissing the insurgency as a problem limited to Baghdad and sparsely populated Sunni Arab areas to the west and north.

However, Baghdad is the country's major transportation hub, the center of political and economic power, and home to more than 20 percent of the population. Its religiously and politically mixed population makes it a natural battleground for control of the country.

"Baghdad is a must-win not only for the prime minister, but for al-Qaida in Iraq," Caldwell said. "Without Baghdad's centralized access to power brokers, Baghdad's large, diverse population, its financial resources, the terrorists elements will lose here in this country."

With the stakes high, al-Maliki last month unveiled a much-heralded security plan for Baghdad, including up to 50,000 police and soldiers on the streets, more checkpoints and raids in neighborhoods where violence is high.

But with surging attacks in the capital — including the kidnappings of Iraqi officials — leading politicians from Shiite and Sunni parties have declared the plan a failure. The United Nations said this week that about 6,000 civilians were killed in May and June, many of them in sectarian violence.

About 50 people were killed Thursday in attacks nationwide, police said. They included a U.S. Marine killed in Anbar province and 12 people who died in a car bombing near Beiji, 155 miles north of Baghdad. Five others were killed by a car bomb in the northern city of Kirkuk.

The crisis in Baghdad raises questions about the ability of Iraq's U.S.-trained police and army to cope with sectarian violence. That in turn casts doubt about the U.S. timetable for handing over security responsibility to the Iraqis in all 18 provinces by the end of next year.

Despite the recent bloodshed, National Security Adviser Mouwafak al-Rubaie said Iraqis will be in charge of security in eight of the 18 provinces before year's end. However, he said the fight against insurgents could last for years.

The government said al-Maliki has dismissed an undisclosed number of security officials for failing to respond to a Monday attack in Mahmoudiya in which at least 51 people were killed. Suspected Sunni gunmen went on a rampage through a market, shooting at shoppers and vendors. Most of the victims were Shiites.

Nevertheless, Caldwell insisted Iraqi forces were "giving their all to bring security to the Baghdadi citizens." He said at least 92 Iraqi police and soldiers had been killed and 444 wounded in fighting in the capital since mid-June.

[trancepriest]

It's quite obvious that we have no control of Iraq. Years there and we haven't even desolved Al Sadr's militia in Baghdad. We left a militia with thousands of guns untouched in Baghdad. We have made the situation in Iraq worse. We have created a terrorist central that now we are powerless to do anything about. Even the Taliban in Afghanistan is resurfacing.

[swirlundergrounder]

Originally Posted by trancepriest

It's quite obvious that we have no control of Iraq. Years there and we haven't even desolved Al Sadr's militia in Baghdad. We left a militia with thousands of guns untouched in Baghdad. We have made the situation in Iraq worse. We have created a terrorist central that now we are powerless to do anything about. Even the Taliban in Afghanistan is resurfacing.

More than 100 people a day (not including military) are dying in Iraq. And those are just the reported numbers. 40,000 civilians since the beginning of the year.

Sorry folks but I don't think that many people were dying when Sadam was in power. Hell if some occupying force was here in the U.S and that many of my people were dying I'd take up arms also in order to get that occupying force out.

The insurgncy will neevr be stopped so long as Iraqi civilians keep dying at the rate that they are...

[V. Barbarino]

So saddam didn't kill that many??? You sure about that? How many wars did he start?? How many people did he gas and kill??

I know thinking is not part of the anti bush element in this country, but it would really go a long way if you think before you post.

[swirlundergrounder]

Originally Posted by Mr

So saddam didn't kill that many??? You sure about that? How many wars did he start?? How many people did he gas and kill??

I know thinking is not part of the anti bush element in this country, but it would really go a long way if you think before you post.

So are you telling me that Sadam killed 300,000 of his own people in a 3 year span??? NOT!!

Where there buildings crumbling, shops, markets and homes being bombed? Neighborhods set on fire and reduced to dust? Every hour on the hour when Sadam was in power?

I'm not saying that Sadam was by all mean innocent and that he didn't murder people with his secret police. He in fact did. But by no means is Iraq today better off than it was 4 years ago...

Maybe you should think b4 you post!

[V. Barbarino]

Ohhh, I see where you are comming from.. We are talking about deaths per time..


See i'm so dumb for not realizing that.

Again think before you post, do a little research on the Iran-Iraq war, or when he invaded kuwait, or when he gassed his own people, lets not forget the killing that went on when he was running the country...

In the civil war in one battle 50k men lost thier lives, the numbers seem staggering, but was it worth it??? If iraq succeeds, was it worth it? At what price are you willing to pay for freedom for people? Freedom is never free, so go hug a tree and talk about your feelings because you are freaking clueless to the reality of freedom.

ps, according to wiki, the Iraq-Iran war killed 1,000,000 people.. But it took 8 years, so according to you, that's ok..

idiot.

[V. Barbarino]

182,000 - Iraq (1986-1989) under Saddam Hussein, see also Al-Anfal Campaign

5,000-7,000 - Halabja poison gas attack (Halabjah, Iraq, 1988)

1,000,000 - Iran-Iraq War (1980–1988)

In June 1991, the U.S. estimated that more than 100,000 Iraqi soldiers died, 300,000 were wounded, 150,000 deserted and 60,000 were taken prisoner. Many human rights groups claimed a much higher number of Iraqis were killed in action. According to Baghdad, civilian casualties numbered more than 35,000. However, since the war, some scholars have concluded that the number of Iraqi soldiers who were killed was significantly less than initially reported.

Then add in the killing he did in his own country..

Probably in the range of 1.5 million deaths attributed to him in his life span, so stfu.

[slamminshaun]

You missed a few Saleen....he snuffed some off his own family members.

[trancepriest]

Originally Posted by Mr

182,000 - Iraq (1986-1989) under Saddam Hussein, see also Al-Anfal Campaign

5,000-7,000 - Halabja poison gas attack (Halabjah, Iraq, 1988)

1,000,000 - Iran-Iraq War (1980–1988)

In June 1991, the U.S. estimated that more than 100,000 Iraqi soldiers died, 300,000 were wounded, 150,000 deserted and 60,000 were taken prisoner. Many human rights groups claimed a much higher number of Iraqis were killed in action. According to Baghdad, civilian casualties numbered more than 35,000. However, since the war, some scholars have concluded that the number of Iraqi soldiers who were killed was significantly less than initially reported.

Then add in the killing he did in his own country..

Probably in the range of 1.5 million deaths attributed to him in his life span, so stfu.

You count one million from the war with Iran... LOL. If you argue that he killed one million of his own people because they were fighting against Iran.... Well then argue that we killed one million Iraqi's too because we were allied with Saddam Hussein against the terrorist threat of Iran at the time. If America was governing Iraq in the 24 years that Saddam Hussein was the leader of that nation... then by the current death rate we would have killed over 2 million Iraqi's without a war with Iran.

So indeed the facts prove that we are better at killing Iraqi's than Saddam Hussein.

[swirlundergrounder]

Originally Posted by Mr

182,000 - Iraq (1986-1989) under Saddam Hussein, see also Al-Anfal Campaign

5,000-7,000 - Halabja poison gas attack (Halabjah, Iraq, 1988)

1,000,000 - Iran-Iraq War (1980–1988)

In June 1991, the U.S. estimated that more than 100,000 Iraqi soldiers died, 300,000 were wounded, 150,000 deserted and 60,000 were taken prisoner. Many human rights groups claimed a much higher number of Iraqis were killed in action. According to Baghdad, civilian casualties numbered more than 35,000. However, since the war, some scholars have concluded that the number of Iraqi soldiers who were killed was significantly less than initially reported.

Then add in the killing he did in his own country..

Probably in the range of 1.5 million deaths attributed to him in his life span, so stfu.

What? You're going to call me an idiot and tell me to STFU when you are posting numbers about how many soilders in the Iraqi military have died in the past 20-30 years?

So how many US soilders died in the Vietnam war? How many in the Korean war? How many in WWII? How many in WWI?? According to what you are saying and inlcuding Iraqi soilders under the command of Sadam Hussien, you are directly implying that who ever was the U.S President at those times of the wars mentioned above where tyrants!

According to your numbers you are saying that 100K Iraqi soilders died here and 100K Iraqi soilders died there and you are adding it all up in your 1.5 million estimate!

When I'm saying 40,000 Iraqis have died since the beginning of this year, I'm talking about the majority of the 40K who have died are civilians...! So far 300K Iraqis have died in 3 years and guess who's in power in Iraq now? It sure as hell isn't Sadam Hussien!!

So 300K in 3 years have died in Iraq. Do you think the blood shed is going to end any time soon? 1 year? 2 years? 3 years??

Dude 3 years in with our involvment in Iraq have came and gone in a blink of an eye! You would be wrong to think that it's just going to end anytime soon. So basically say this go's on another 3 years. You are looking at close to 750K Iraqi's dying under the watch of the U.S and the current Iraqi government. And with the rate of collateral damage caused by the weapons of today, that 750K is being generous!

So in the span of 3 years (300K Iraqi civilians dead) compared to the span of 30 years and 1.5 million Iraqis dead (according to you mostly military personel) when Sadam was in power. You do the math!!

Saleen do you want to retract your statement calling me and tree hugging idoit and telling me to STFU? Or do you want me to get ugly back at you??