The George W Bush veto legacy

[endymion]

Originally Posted by 029

crystal ball says that this administration will go down in history as the worst thing that's ever happened to this country.

Presidential legacies are judged by historians on a lot of different parameters, and one of them is analysis of their use of the veto.

George W Bush has used his veto twice. Once to impede stem cell research in order to pander to his religious base. Those of us in our 20s and 30s will have fewer treatment options as we age because of that veto.

He used his second veto to demand open-ended financing of his unpopular war in Iraq so that he can continue to perpetuate the conflict for as long as he wishes. He ironically used the veto to push for the authority to continue fighting with no strings attached on the fourth anniversary of the day that he staged a publicity event on the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln in front of a "Mission Accomplished" banner and announced that the United States had "prevailed" in Iraq. 3,212 American troops were killed and 24,370 were wounded in Iraq between the "Mission Accomplished" announcement and Bush's veto to extend the war.

A parallel from the Vietnam conflict was Nixon's veto of the Repeal of the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. Nixon vetoed repealing the resolution because he wanted to have the power to continue to engage US forces without a declaration of war. Congress overrode Nixon's veto and passed the War Powers Resolution, which theoretically ensures that the President and Congress must agree on matters of US military aggression. Under the War Powers Resolution as well as the war powers clause in the US Constitution, Congress has the power and the duty to stop a president from prosecuting unpopular military conflict.

The Iraq equivalent of the Gulf of Tonkin resolution was the Authorization For Use Of Military Force Against Iraq in 2002, which, "authorizes the use of all necessary means to (1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and, (2) to enforce United Nations Security Council Resolution 660 (1990)." UN resolution 660 required the withdrawal of Iraqi troops after the invasion of Kuwait.

[JMT]

Originally Posted by techjunkie

Once to impede stem cell research in order to pander to his religious base. Those of us in our 20s and 30s will have fewer treatment options as we age because of that veto.

let me preface this by saying im not taking a side on the issue.

with that said, please be clear. there are 2 types of stem cell research. and to speculate as to what treatments we may be missing out by not funding embryonic research is just that, speculation. i acknowledge that the field is still relatively young, but to date no medical advancement has come from it.

[endymion]

Originally Posted by JMT

and to speculate as to what treatments we may be missing out by not funding embryonic research is just that, speculation.

Scientific advances are all about speculation, and about investigating all possible options. The long-term effect of that veto was a loss of a chunk of the growing biotech industry to places like Singapore where research continues. The US economy will lose out over decades as researchers from Taiwan file US and international patents on stem cell discoveries that will be worth billions.

To date no medical advancements have come from stem cell research? Really?

[JMT]

Originally Posted by techjunkie

To date no medical advancements have come from stem cell research?

no applicable medical procedures have been derived from embryonic research.

but like i said, the research is still young and im not taking a side on the issue.

[endymion]

Originally Posted by JMT

[quote author=techjunkie link=board=6;threadid=39415;start=0#msg440806 date=1178120639]To date no medical advancements have come from stem cell research?

no applicable medical procedures have been derived from embryonic research.
[/quote]

It's easy to find examples like this research. I found this NPR analysis to be helpful.

My point is simply that historical analysis of the Bush legacy will note that he used his veto power to limit scientific research in a critical growth industry during a time when the loss of industry to other countries due to globalization is a serious threat to the US economy. And also to demand the authority to continue fighting an unpopular war with no strings attached. Not good for the Bush legacy.

[JMT]

Originally Posted by techjunkie

the loss of industry to other countries due to globalization is a serious threat to the US economy.

i agree with this completely.

im my opinion, the language in the bill that bans human cloning should have been enough to make it fly. thats the one area that gets a little scary.

[V. Barbarino]

There was still private research and I'm all for other countries getting into the research game, for the last 200 years, it's only been us and the Japs doing medical research and drug discovery, so I welcome it with arms wide open.. A few billion off our gdp is chump change, plus our companies will buy theirs.

As for his iraq veto, what if iraq turns around? What if it spreads democracy in that region? What if that country is another germany or jap after ww2???

Tech you make too many assumptions, the game is far from over, and like Bush said, still till this day, there are debating George Washington's legacy.

I hate bush for the stem cell thing, but congress could change that law if they want, but they won't.

[endymion]

Originally Posted by V.

I hate bush for the stem cell thing, but congress could change that law if they want, but they won't.

The fight continues:

Senate Passes Stem-Cell Measure Bush Says He'll Veto
By William Roberts and Scott Cendrowski

April 11 2007 (Bloomberg) -- The Senate fell short of a veto- proof margin in approving legislation today to lift President George W. Bush's 2001 ban on federal funding for new embryonic stem-cell research.

The Senate voted 63-34 in favor of expanding federal funding for stem-cell research using discarded human embryos. The vote showed little shift in Republican support for stem cell research after Democrats won control of Congress in the 2006 election campaigning on a promise to lift Bush's ban.

[029]

Originally Posted by V.

There was still private research and I'm all for other countries getting into the research game, for the last 200 years, it's only been us and the Japs doing medical research and drug discovery, so I welcome it with arms wide open.. A few billion off our gdp is chump change, plus our companies will buy theirs.

As for his iraq veto, what if iraq turns around? What if it spreads democracy in that region? What if that country is another germany or jap after ww2???

Tech you make too many assumptions, the game is far from over, and like Bush said, still till this day, there are debating George Washington's legacy.

I hate bush for the stem cell thing, but congress could change that law if they want, but they won't.

to be fair, actually european, and namely german scientists have done much to advance medical knowledge and many of the drug therapies we still use today.
imho there is NO analogy with iraq/germany/japan. we went in and took down a relatively stable SECULAR government for what reason?? there won't be any peace in the middle east 'till (like other's have already said) the israel question is resolved to regional satisfaction. democratic government structure isn't for US to install. it is up to the people in each country to win their rights on their own terms in their own ways. we're talking real democracy, not a theocracy bathed with meaningless elections.
let's not compare bush and george washington!
stem cell therapies may hold a lot of promise, but i say the USA should first and foremost make health available and affordable to everyone, esp. preventative healthcare, proper nutrition and physical education. these alone would make huge improvements in the quality of life here ..

this is so open-ended i could write paragraphs .. but i won't~

[LisaLoca7Bianca]

The war in Iraq is pissing me off. I think Bush needs to wake up and see how much damage he is doing to our economy.