Military intervention in Haiti

[endymion]

Since moving to Miami I have become far more aware of issues relating to Cuba and Haiti, since I'm surrounded now by Cubans and Haitians.

Can somebody please explain to me how it could possibly make sense that we are opposing allowing the French to send trooops to stabilize Haiti?

Background: Haiti is unstable, they need help. Former French colony. The US is over-extended in Iraq and Afghanistan and all of the other fights that we have picked. France wants UN intervention to stabilize Haiti. They are offering to send troops and they do not suggest that we send our own. Colin Powell insists that a politicial solution is preferred over military intervention. This after rejecting political solutions in Iraq and invading unilaterally.

I have not quite figured out WTF is going on and I really would love to hear opinions. From where I'm sitting it appears to me that the Bush Administration is simply afraid that Aristide will end up removed, and they dont' want that because he's our puppet in Haiti.

Aristide is running around trying to use the word "terrorists" to describe his opposition in order to justify himself. We support him. It makes us look like idiots.

[pod]

It's just a grudge we have against the French. We don't want them operating in our hemisphere.

As far as being over extended, nah...the philosophy of the US military has always bee a 2-major-conflict, one brush fire conflict type of scenario. Haiti is comparatively a brush fire...we could easily spare the resources to do so. The downside is if we went in it would be to prop up the current tin-pot government.

I'm wondering if the UN intervention would be the same, to prop up the current government? The UN is borderline useless though...

[JMT]

I have worked with a lot of Haitans at previous part-time jobs and got to know them pretty well on a personal level. i think its just that there is really no indication that any new political movement would fare any better. Haiti has been through this before, there was large turmoil when Aristide took power but change was wanted so badly. Its just unfortunate, they really got fucked by mother earth. I have flown over the island before and if you look at the Dominican side its all pretty beaches, green and lush, once you see the Haitan side its nothing but rocky beaches that cant house resorts, murky coastline which deters fishing, erroded soil and no vegetation. they cant maintain a decent ecomomy and that will continue to lead to political instability.

[JMT]

I'm wondering if the UN intervention would be the same, to prop up the current government? The UN is borderline useless though...

i totally agree there.

[Apotheosis]

Haiti has the highest deforestation rate in the entire world. That ruins the entire ecosystem and environment.

[endymion]

Wow, okay, didn't realize the place was hell on earth, geographically. I took a bus ride through some back roads in Jamaica recently because the main tourist highway was washed out at the time and I was astonished at how they just don't seem to really have any economy of any kind. Shacks and shanty towns all over the island and then tourist resorts in the nice spots. I have a mental image now of Haiti looking just like that but with no tourist economy.

Doesn't it seem like we could take a big step forward toward international solidarity by warmly welcoming French assistance? I see it as a rare diplomatic opportunity that we're fumbling miserably by holding some stupid anti-French grudge.

The French, as it turns out, were RIGHT about Iraq. No weapons of mass destruction. Political solution would have been better. Holding a grudge against them for disagreeing with us after we realize that we were wrong is idiotic.

[JMT]

Haitians somewhat look up to the U.S. I think we are trying to make it as calm a situation as possible. Just b/c the French say something doesnt make it the best option. Their action could easily make the situation more volitile. Its not really a winning situation since the people themselves arent clear on what will help them.

i really dont think a "grudge" has anything to do with it. We would feel the same way if it was Poland instead of France.

FYI, the useless UN tried political resolution with Iraq for a decade and Saddam never complied. All the UN does is talk. And his former military leaders came forward and said they did have programs for to develop WMD. Radioactive materials have been found.

(this reminds me of a joke:

What do you call 50,000 French men with their hands in the air?

The French Army)

[endymion]

Heh. I still do think that all of the French surrender jokes are pretty funny. Funny is funny even when it's wrong...

JMT, do you think that your opinion on the situation would change if Haiti did get just completely Liberia-unstable? The rest of the world expects us to be the cops for places like Liberia and Haiti now because we have used the 'police action' rationalization for our blunt international interventions a few too many times. Not stepping up to the plate and taking care of situations as they arise makes us look highly hypocritical.

[JMT]

right now they dont know what they want, just that they want change. They all loved Aristide when he took power back in 94-95. But economically they havent really improved. And I think since the U.S. has some trust and faith in Aristide, we def should want things sorted things out before the rebel coup gets out of hand. The rebel forces are now being assisted by a former Haitian para-military dictator.

I have been following the story a little from day to day, and I dont see where the US is trying to prevent anyone from helping them. Only the US ambassador to Haiti said they should resolve it through negotiations, Powell just said we cant commit troops now, and hes probably right. A lack of showing in force is a good reason why our guys getting killed on patrols in Iraq.

I do think we should allow them to be helped by others if we cant do it ourselves. But would that be helping the Haitian people or hurting them? i dont know.

[endymion]

I don't know either, I'm still trying to figure it all out. I don't know that much about Aristide, I apparently had other priorities when he came to power because I apparently wasn't following the news.

But yes, we are trying to prevent anybody from helping. France wants to send troops immediately to help. We are saying no.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/7978476.htm

If the French do it unilaterally just to make a point then I'd say we asked for it.