Iraqi Tsunami

[trancepriest]

Just think for a moment that the lives lost in the Tsunami is equivalent to the number of Iraqi's we've killed so far. Well give or take a few thousand.

[slamminshaun]

Originally Posted by trancepriest

Just think for a moment that the lives lost in the Tsunami is equivalent to the number of Iraqi's we've killed so far. Well give or take a few thousand.

And think, that it would take over 20 Tsunamis to match how many Saddam Hussein killed.

[trancepriest]

Originally Posted by Slammin'

[quote author=trancepriest link=board=6;threadid=10702;start=0#msg122547 date=1104611468]
Just think for a moment that the lives lost in the Tsunami is equivalent to the number of Iraqi's we've killed so far. Well give or take a few thousand.

And think, that it would take over 20 Tsunamis to match how many Saddam Hussein killed.
[/quote]

Well we did help in that too... supplying the ingredients for the chemical weapons. And in any case we didn't care so much when he was killing Iranians. It's worthy to note that we supported Saddam Hussein in the 1980's when the very atrocities we're using to LATER justify the Iraq War were being committed.

[JMT]

Originally Posted by trancepriest

[quote author=Slammin' Shaun link=board=6;threadid=10702;start=0#msg122570 date=1104615202]
[quote author=trancepriest link=board=6;threadid=10702;start=0#msg122547 date=1104611468]
Just think for a moment that the lives lost in the Tsunami is equivalent to the number of Iraqi's we've killed so far. Well give or take a few thousand.

And think, that it would take over 20 Tsunamis to match how many Saddam Hussein killed.
[/quote]

Well we did help in that too... supplying the ingredients for the chemical weapons....
[/quote]

in all the times thats been thrown on the board, im still waiting to see some concrete evidence of that...

[saintjohn]

Originally Posted by trancepriest

Well we did help in that too... supplying the ingredients for the chemical weapons.

"We," as in certain corprorations? Or "we," as in the State Department, which ignored various reports and allowed business deals involving questionable goods and services to continue?

Or "we," as in Germany, France, China, Russia, Portuagal, Syria, Bulgaria, Belarus, Bosnia, Ukraine, Serbia, and the United Kindgdom?

There's plenty of guilt to go around, as this Amnesty International report suggests:

Before the 1991 Gulf War, at least 20 countries were accused of involvement in building up the technological basis for different Iraqi weapons programs, in particular the chemical weapons program. In December 2002, the Iraqi government submitted a 12,000-page dossier to the UN naming companies from the UK, France, Russia, the USA and China as suppliers of weapons technology to Iraq.

Seventeen UK companies named as having supplied Iraq with nuclear, biological, chemical, rocket and conventional weapons technology are to be investigated and could face prosecution. The dossier claims that 24 US firms sold Iraq weapons including nuclear and rocket technology and that some "50 subsidiaries of foreign enterprises conducted their arms business with Iraq from the US". Germany was shown to be Iraq’s biggest arms-trading partner with 80 companies selling weapons technology.

It's not the definitive work on the subject, but it's short and worth reading:

http://web.amnesty.org/pages/ttt4-article_7-eng

Of course, it's Saddam Hussein who bears the ultimate responsibility for choosing to build and use such weapons.

[slamminshaun]

School's in session Junkies!!

[trancepriest]

Originally Posted by saintjohn

[quote author=trancepriest link=board=6;threadid=10702;start=0#msg122577 date=1104616517]Well we did help in that too... supplying the ingredients for the chemical weapons.

"We," as in certain corprorations? Or "we," as in the State Department, which ignored various reports and allowed business deals involving questionable goods and services to continue?

Or "we," as in Germany, France, China, Russia, Portuagal, Syria, Bulgaria, Belarus, Bosnia, Ukraine, Serbia, and the United Kindgdom?

There's plenty of guilt to go around, as this Amnesty International report suggests:

Before the 1991 Gulf War, at least 20 countries were accused of involvement in building up the technological basis for different Iraqi weapons programs, in particular the chemical weapons program. In December 2002, the Iraqi government submitted a 12,000-page dossier to the UN naming companies from the UK, France, Russia, the USA and China as suppliers of weapons technology to Iraq.

Seventeen UK companies named as having supplied Iraq with nuclear, biological, chemical, rocket and conventional weapons technology are to be investigated and could face prosecution. The dossier claims that 24 US firms sold Iraq weapons including nuclear and rocket technology and that some "50 subsidiaries of foreign enterprises conducted their arms business with Iraq from the US". Germany was shown to be Iraq’s biggest arms-trading partner with 80 companies selling weapons technology.

It's not the definitive work on the subject, but it's short and worth reading:

http://web.amnesty.org/pages/ttt4-article_7-eng

Of course, it's Saddam Hussein who bears the ultimate responsibility for choosing to build and use such weapons.
[/quote]

Our government knew what those ingredients were for... our same government which leads a super power. Now the same American government cites Saddam Husseins atrocities and possesion of those very same weapons as reasons to invade. When Saddam was using those same weapons to gas Iranians... we didn't care one bit.. even when he used them to kill the Kurds... we didn't care. But then we use those weapons as justifications for the war. Do you guys know that we provided Saddam Hussein with military intelligence during the war against Iran. The very war in which he was using chemical weapons to gas thousands of Iranians. Perhaps I just have some screwed up sense of morality or something.. but we're just as guilty as Saddam Hussein.. we built the monster. Saddam was manipulated by the West. The problem is not that he became too big a monster... the problem is that he went against our economic interest. Not that he killed hundres of thousands of Iranians, thousands of kurds and numerous members of the opposition. The ultimate issue we had with him is over oil.

The hypocrisy is just stunning to me. Here you admit the facts of our complicity in aiding Saddam Hussein with chemical weapons... now lets go further... do you think we knew what he was using those weapons for... did we know when he gassed the kurds... did we provide him with military intelligence... such as satellite information on the position of Iranian troops... the data that he used to gas the iranian troops. Now at the same time we're supporting Saddam... Iran-Contra affair was happening... tie the two together. Then we have the guts to call Saddam Hussein a monster.

[JMT]

25 years ago we might not have known what he would become. hindsight is 20-20 and no one likes a monday morning quarterback.

and if one country controlled all or most of the oil production in the world, after a while they wouldnt have a hard time imposing their will on others worldwide.

any sources? all of what you say about the chemical weapons is subjective opinion. im sorry, but saint john pretty much ended this discussion already.

[saintjohn]

Originally Posted by trancepriest

Perhaps I just have some screwed up sense of morality or something.. but we're just as guilty as Saddam Hussein.

Again, who is this "we"?

I don't think you have a "screwed up sense of morality" to expect world leaders to behave in a responsible, moral fashion.

I'm curious, however, about your focus on American wrongdoing. You seem to take pleasure in pointing out "our" guilt, and yet you are silent about the crimes committed by the leaders of other nations.

In my previous post regarding the arming of Iraq, I stated that "There's plenty of guilt to go around," and cited a report from Amnesty International (of all sources) to back up my assertion. To my knowledge, you've never criticized any of the other nations - Germany, France, China, Russia, Portuagal, Syria, Bulgaria, Belarus, Bosnia, Ukraine, Serbia, and the United Kindgdom - for their actions in this or any other episode.

I know this is just a nightlife forum, and I don't expect "fair and balanced" reporting from the Cooljunkie community. We're just a bunch of nightlife lovers who happen to have interests beyond dance music, and some of us enjoy spirited political discussions. I understand that.

But do you ever have anything good to say about America or Americans?

[slamminshaun]

"Outfoxed" again!! ;D I might as well just take a vacation from the Junkie Chat forum....SaintJohn has it under control.